Dota 2 hero tier list july 2013

Competitive Dota 2 Hero Tier List – Page 2

You missed my point. I’m not saying Eastern playstyle are superior. Eastern playstyles aren’t superior, but you have to also be fair to them in giving the OVERALL value of Asian play a similar value to Western play. As it stands, you’re weighting Western play 5-6 times more than Chinese play simply due to the fact that there are 5-6 times as many games being played. Raw Dota-Academy stats don’t account for this. They just report the games played, and it’s up to you to normalize for this fact.

You also have to account for the value of tournaments and for the specific point at which a tournament is being played. Weaker teams tend to have weaker drafts. Stronger teams playing weaker teams tend to pick things that are either “standard” or “fun” for the purpose of not revealing valuable information at a point in a tournament when they don’t need to. Playoff-stage games need to be given higher weight than group stages and qualifiers, both because the quality of teams is higher, and because teams are more likely to draft in a way that belies the true strengths of the heroes.

But yes, Juggernaut actually was a higher value hero than being picked/banned 10 times belies because of his value against the Naga strategies en vogue. It’s just that it was deliberately hidden until that fact was of value. If Na’Vi had brashly revealed this during earlier stages of the tournament, it’s very likely he would have been picked/banned more.

On February 12 2013 17:18 TheYango wrote:You missed my point. I’m not saying Eastern playstyle are superior. Eastern playstyles aren’t superior, but you have to also be fair to them in giving the OVERALL value of Asian play a similar value to Western play. As it stands, you’re weighting Western play 5-6 times more than Chinese play simply due to the fact that there are 5-6 times as many games being played. Raw Dota-Academy stats don’t account for this. They just report the games played, and it’s up to you to normalize for this fact.

From Dreamhack until now, there have been 279 DotA-Academy-tracked games that could be considered “Western”, 43 games that could be considered “Chinese”, and 66 games that could be considered “SEA”. Do you think it’s reasonable to give those Western games more weight because there’s more of them? If we want to be fair and assume that all regions’ playstyles have equal merit, then you would upscale the value of those Chinese games such that they collectively have similar value to the pool of Western games, and likewise with the SEA games.

You also have to account for the value of tournaments and for the specific point at which a tournament is being played. Weaker teams tend to have weaker drafts. Stronger teams playing weaker teams tend to pick things that are either “standard” or “fun” for the purpose of not revealing valuable information at a point in a tournament when they don’t need to. Playoff-stage games need to be given higher weight than group stages and qualifiers, both because the quality of teams is higher, and because teams are more likely to draft in a way that belies the true strengths of the heroes.

Thanks for clarifying your post. I agree that the importance of the games and the stages of the tournament should be taken into account. I will keep that in mind for the future.

Weaker teams tend to have mainstream drafts more often, while stronger teams usually have pocket strategies that they use even in later stages, relying on familiarity and the surprise factor. We’ve seen some of these pocket strategies become mainstream a few weeks later in the next tournaments and that’s the circle of life and it moves us all.

For the sum of the games between regions, I’m not sure if global trending would benefit from introducing equal weighting for each one. Do you think having separate lists for each region would offer a clearer image? Everyone could then compare and weigh them according to their preference.